Ok ill start the discussion.

Rebuilding the Raid Force

I think the first thing we need to do is set a raid schedule. Most if not all raiding guilds have set days they raid, for instance Tues, Thurs and Sat. I think we should start with three for now. The way we have been doing it is raid leaders would just go to the calendar and post raids whenever. When we were going good this was awesome. Lots of raids, lots of fun and least of all lots of loot. Problem is after a while people start to get burned out. Im not saying we cant have raids other nites but define the raid schedule.

Second thing we need to do is then find out who can raid on those nites. Real life does happen, and its not like a job but get an idea who can raid on the majority of those nite so you can count on them, most of the time.

Thirdly we need to decide what classes are needed for the majority of raiding and start a roster for those positions. Yes certain raids may require different classes for a specific mob, etc.

Fourth, people have to determine what class they want to focus on as there main for raid (remember to pick a class you enjoy playing). Lots of people have level 80 alts but for this raiding to succeed characters need to progress in both skill and gear and if people are constantly switching toons for the raids it slows that progression. I would suggest leaving it up to raid leaders if certain class for specific raids or mobs.

Fifth, ties into number four, with the roster of needed classes set, raiders chosing what class they want to play will provide and accurate list of what classes we need. Be it help current Avaloriens level to take those spots, or recruiting for them. If we recruit we need to inform them, we are rebuilding so we dont get high level people who get discouraged because we are not doing TSO stuff exclusively.

Sixth, Loot. It will come. The leaders will come up with a fair and equitable system. Again, it will come.

Seventh. We just need a gameplan. How best to progress with zones. What zones to start with, how often we do them and when its time to move on, etc.

And lastly, HAVE FUN!!! Its still a game not a job!


Discuss....

In terms of actual raid make-up I propose the following.

Would really need to determine ideal class make-up first. Something like this probably:

MT Group:

Plate Tank
Coercer
Dirge
Shaman
Cleric
Swashbuckler/Assassin

Reasoning: The main tank group is all about buffing the tank, keeping the mobs on the tank, and keeping the tank alive. You have Shamans/Clerics the "better" single target healers, Coercer and Swash/Ass to feed hate (among other things), and Dirge for the +parry/mit and stoneskin.


OT Group:

Fighter
Enchanter
Bard
Shaman
Cleric
DPS

Reasoning: Offtank group is slightly more flexible as they're mostly going to be tanking adds, or only tanking occasionally. Setup is similar to the MT group though, and for similar reasons.

Mage DPS Group:

Druid (?)
Illusionist
Troubador
Mage DPS
Mage DPS
Mage DPS

Reasoning: I'm honestly not familiar with healers buffs too much when they come to mages, so I'm not sure what healers would be best for a Mage group, but Druids are usually good at group healing, so I feel are best for the damn lifeburners and chokers. Illusionists provide IA for the Troubador and Time Compression for one of the Mages. Troubador provides general group buffs for mages and Upbeat Tempo for one of the Mages. Really, Predators could also fall into this group for the IA (especially for rangers) and haste buff from the Troubador.

Scout DPS Group:

Druid
Chanter
Dirge
Scout DPS
Scout DPS
Scout DPS

Reasoning: Druids, again for their group heals. Personally, since Swashbucklers rely on DPS buffs, it would be nice to have a Fury (Feral), Inquisitor, or Mystic (For RoA, that's all) if it's a rogue heavy group. "Scout" DPS doesn't necessarily refer to just scouts, but brawlers as well.


Now, you won't necessarily run 1 of each group some raids may not require an OT group, and you could have 3 scout DPS groups if that's how many scouts we have, and no Mage DPS group, or vice-versa.

Also, I had put this in the officer forums, but ideally you want to have at least 2 people that can fit into each position, and you'll want to "tag" each player with the position that they play, as well as whether they're a "core" player, or a "back-up" player.

For example (and just for example), let's say our "Core" MT group is:

Jungbrunnen
Indygo
Jakini
Xeteran
Shantie
Orlean

All of these people would be tagged as a member of the "Core" MT group. Obviously, we'll need back-ups, so let's say that Thieron is the "Back-up" MT. Obviously, since Thieron plays Indygo, we would need the "back-up" MT scout/DPS to step up into the MT group. Which would then cause a position in a DPS/OT group to open up.


There would be a tiered system:

Tier 1: Core Main Tank Group
Tier 2: Core Off Tank Group
Tier 3: Core DPS Group
Tier 4: Back-ups

"Core members" would rarely, if ever, be in a "lower tier" group when they show up, but there may be special circumstances where it's necessary. If there is a spot that needs filled in a higher tier, you would basically shift people up. For example, if the Main Tank is missing, we would shift the "core" Off Tank to the Main Tank group. We would then bring in a tank from Tier 3 (if there is a brawler that is in the "core" DPS group that can handle tanking) or Tier 4 to fill in the position.

The "tiers" are not necessarily an exact interpretation of skill or usefulness in the raid, so that would need to be made clear. There are some "glass ceilings" for certain classes. You would almost never have a wizard in the MT group for instance.

"Core members" are not necessarily static either. Ideally, you'd want at least 2 people per position both to fill back-ups, and so that we have the best players we can on the core force. If there's 1 person playing a particular class/position, it's easy for that person to get complacent and not try to better themselves if they'll always have a spot. Having at least 2 players for each position, I believe would create some healthy "competition".

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I just wanted to add since what I was going to say has already been said. Just remember that we need to step back so that we can go forward and do what everyone wants to do. But we need to start working as a team and do the best we can do on the class we play. Like it was said yesterday improve yourself cause no one can improve you but you.

Pick a class you like and tell us who you want to be your main. We have lots of people that have alts and I know you all want to play them and gear them but when it comes to raids you need to make a chose.

This is just a game so play what you want. What you have fun playing. I just know that we have it in us to be all we can be and get back there. I have faith in Ava I just hope everyone has that same faith. But to grow we need to take a step back and do the lower stuff so that we can start working like a group. Knowing what each of us can do and improving on our skills and gear so that we can get back to where we were before.

I know being a raid leader takes a lot I have been there with a few guilds and the league where I ran raid and know what it takes to make it work. I will be there to help this guild grow again and do what needs to be done. But I just want to know that everyone is willing to do the same. Like all the other raid leaders and heru's want to see Ava grow again and strive. The reason why I have not helped with raid in Ava is cause I did it for so long already I can't take the stress of it anymore but will be there with any of my toons to help out. Working up a SK now also and liking it. So I am part of the many that need to make up my mind what I would like to be my main which I will figure that out soon.

I am going to stop now since this was longer then what I wanted to type and I just keep rambling.

Live long Ava
Moo/Koyia

Thank you Addam for starting this thread and explaining the solution process. Those interested in guild raiding should contribute here for discussion and together forge a guild raid system that will serve our guild best.

I like the idea of set raid days as it allows me to plan my week accordingly.

I also like the idea of set mains but I think some leeway should be there for items that will be transmuted or for things like mythical updates (bring the alt for 1 kill they need for the update then back to your main).

I for one like the DKP system but am open to other ideas. There are lots out there for giving your dedicated raid force an option to gear up quickly without completely hindering those who are not able to raid as often. I can't say I know of a good system but I'm sure one could be found.

I think we should probably start the process of setting up a guild raid schedule by having a poll where people can select the days of the week that they are available to raid. Whatever 3 days have the most people available should be our primary raid schedule.

I'd set up the poll myself, but I'm not sure how to make it so you can choose multiple options.

There is no real way to do that, only way to get an accurate result would be to have a thread asking for days and have someone manually tally the results.

We have done this several times over the last year in terms of "raid days" its always wed/thurs

Ok now that I have had a chance to read what others have posted I am ready to add to that.

I agree with most all that has been said
TO Summarize and add comments

1. set a raid schedule... I would also add do not put down the actual raid that will be done.. we can choose that based on signups for now. this is done very often with raid guilds It allows flexibility in which raid is happening.

2. what nights, what times? This is important. I do understand the need to start at 930 pm but at the same time during the week I know that being up til midnight can be a problem for some. I'd suggest 930 pm until 1130 pm with the occasional midnight stop time (I'm being selfish here as my husband has to be up at 4 am and raiding until midnight is hard on him)

3. Main and one alt. Pick the class you want to raid with.. very important. that should be your main. allong with that is research research research.. check the forums out and find out what others are saying is best for your class. ask other raiders and .. along with that I'd love to have a thread where everyone puts information about there class and what is useful to them.. IE for a ranger I understand having a correctly specked tank, a inquisitor, a dirge or a troubie can help get the dps even higher for onis... other things he can speak to more about it. Also the inforamtion that would be in this thread would be very helpful as others work up the class for raiding and .. for the ones leading the raids.


4. practice. .. everyone should have act or something similar running in the back ground and try to increase damage etc... Raise the bar
work each week on getting your dps up if you are dps class... ideally dps class should be doing 3k- 5k without buffs. also try to get you resists up to 10 K unbuffed. find out where the itesm are that will make you better for your class and work on getting them


5. needed classes.. at this point we need to know who is playing what 2 classes. also need to look at who only has one at 80 and wants to raid. Lets get a list together of mains and alts. also note if you would be willing to work up a class that we need or betray to a needed class. Also answer to your self are you willign to go into whatever zone is decided upon for each raid?

6. Loot System Even though no one will totally admit it everyone ones to get the gear available in the raid zones to some extent The good thing si taht we all want to help others gear up too and get loot. I know that some love the rand 100 way of doing loot but i've seen problems with it. Some people are very luck and others can't seem to roll decently. While leading the league we used a system that was fair to all who are raiding. Molo mentioned it last night and I'd ask that he go into details on that system. It is like a reverse DKP system in a way. It goes off the number of raids you do and the number of items you have gotten. I'll let molo explain it. the other part of the loot system that is important is to have a loot council. I suggest three people/officers/raid leaders. I like the idea of having alts be able to get items. One thing that is also important is the adornments. So my suggestion is only the main and the one ddesignated alt shoudl be allowed to get the items until most of the raid force has the adornments.

7. group make up. Keyh described the ideal set up and I agree with him there are some other group make ups that can be used as well but it depends on what we are heading after.

8. Game plan I think that the game plan will be to get the raid force together working well and work our way back up to end game content and to do the end game content on a routine basis.

9, additionally we should discuss rotating non raiding members in to get things like mythics I would suggest no more than 3-4 at at time. when the time comes that we feel comfortable doing that.

additional comments

Raid leaders the people who lead our raids have a very difficult job. THey must make the raid fun, while progressing through new areas. At the same time must get raid forces who can do the things needed to succeed and sometimes that makes people upset. Finally they spend time researching raid zones when they could easily use that to play the game.

I've been a raid leader for four years in the largest raiding force around The league. I was there when the league was joined back together and from the league of luck and the alliance. I lead raids for a period of time and then was asked to become a leader in the league. I know the problem inherit in running a raid force and in trying to please everyone. To be a raid leader you have to enjoy it. otherwise the raid leader will burn out.

I am willing to help in anyway to get us to the point where we are raiding end content on a regular basis. With 4 years of leading raids and loving raiding I look forward to the eday when Avalorian is considered the guild to join for raiding.. as it already is for everything else.

We can do this

Sorry abourt the long winded ness.

Very well said and I want to say thank you to everyone for thier input. I see Keyh has started the threads needed to get all of this going. Excellent teamwork!

Keyh,

I like a Templar as Mage dps healer.

The Templar has Divine Recovery:
* Increases Recovery Speed of group members (AE) by 33%
* Increases Casting Speed of group members (AE) by 50%

One of my favorite spells. Great for named fights, or when PoTM is up. Plus the extra hps from Templars buffs helps Necro's for LB specifically.

A Scout can work in the last spot too if there isn't a 3rd Mage dps. If it's a Mage, they won't have Time Compression or Upbeat Tempo, but if it's a scout, they can take advantage of IA from the Illy. But a Mage works as well because of Tandem and Troub group buffs.

I usually found myself as the 3rd mage dps, and without TC or UT, I usually felt the spot could have served better with a scout.

My 2cp.

Obie

Templar or Inquisitor can do divine recovery, however few people spec that anymore